Truth- Internal Freedom Phyllis Leavitt

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.480
Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie

00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:05.799
Longo. This show looks at how the internal choices

00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:09.259
we make influence the direction our lives and

00:00:09.259 --> 00:00:12.240
work take. Today's conversation brings real experience

00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:15.039
into that space, exploring how internal shifts

00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:17.739
quietly change outcomes over time. We have a

00:00:17.739 --> 00:00:20.160
very special guest today, Phyllis Levitt. Good

00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.399
afternoon, Phyllis. Welcome to the show. Well,

00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:24.420
thank you, Debbie, so much for having me here

00:00:24.420 --> 00:00:28.449
with you. You're welcome. I'm going to ask you

00:00:28.449 --> 00:00:32.250
to tell a little bit about your story and something

00:00:32.250 --> 00:00:35.890
that happened in your life or a few things, any

00:00:35.890 --> 00:00:39.990
type of traumatic experience, for example, or

00:00:39.990 --> 00:00:43.530
something that you needed, that you needed to

00:00:43.530 --> 00:00:46.909
get to the other side to and how you did that

00:00:46.909 --> 00:00:50.250
and what was your process exactly. Now, I need

00:00:50.250 --> 00:00:53.229
to show for a few different things. And one of

00:00:53.229 --> 00:00:57.810
the reasons is that I want to get people to understand

00:00:57.810 --> 00:01:01.170
that there is a way out for them. So if they're

00:01:01.170 --> 00:01:05.969
stuck in negativity or maybe a certain situation

00:01:05.969 --> 00:01:08.870
that's happening in their life, they don't have

00:01:08.870 --> 00:01:11.510
to stay that way. Okay, they don't have to sit

00:01:11.510 --> 00:01:14.989
in the negative. They can go from negative to

00:01:14.989 --> 00:01:19.030
positive. And this is a main reason why I have

00:01:19.030 --> 00:01:22.439
this show. And I want to bring people in, guests

00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:25.459
in, like you and a few other guests that I've

00:01:25.459 --> 00:01:29.599
had that explain all different situations. We're

00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:31.219
not going to have one person do the same thing.

00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:33.260
It's going to be all different situations, all

00:01:33.260 --> 00:01:35.439
different stories, because everybody's story

00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:38.640
is their own story. So it's personal to them.

00:01:38.980 --> 00:01:40.859
That's the whole thing. Totally. So if you could

00:01:40.859 --> 00:01:43.060
do that a little bit, tell us about your story

00:01:43.060 --> 00:01:45.379
a little bit and how you got through these different

00:01:45.379 --> 00:01:47.819
things that you have in your mind. Well, let

00:01:47.819 --> 00:01:50.959
me just start by saying that many people remember

00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:53.560
the things that happened to them that were traumatic,

00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:58.299
but like me, many people also don't. If the things

00:01:58.299 --> 00:02:00.280
that happened that were traumatic happened at

00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:02.920
a really young age, that's what happened to me.

00:02:02.980 --> 00:02:05.700
I had some significant child abuse that happened

00:02:05.700 --> 00:02:10.639
to me pre -verbally, so I had no memory of what

00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:13.080
happened to me, but what I had was symptoms.

00:02:14.060 --> 00:02:18.060
And I was a child at a time where nobody really

00:02:18.060 --> 00:02:20.750
talked about anything psychological at all. I

00:02:20.750 --> 00:02:25.050
had tremendous fear of the dark. I had this just

00:02:25.050 --> 00:02:27.789
inordinate fear of bugs, but mostly spiders.

00:02:28.069 --> 00:02:32.210
And I was really uncomfortable in my body. And

00:02:32.210 --> 00:02:35.870
I had no language for that because nobody talked

00:02:35.870 --> 00:02:38.069
about those things when I was a child. Nobody

00:02:38.069 --> 00:02:40.810
even in my family, people didn't even actually

00:02:40.810 --> 00:02:43.250
talk about how they felt. We just had certain

00:02:43.250 --> 00:02:46.360
expectations of what you were supposed to do,

00:02:46.379 --> 00:02:48.759
go to school, get good grades, clean your room,

00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:51.560
make your bed, that kind of thing. And we really

00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:55.300
didn't talk about our internal experience. And

00:02:55.300 --> 00:02:59.400
so I had no language for the feelings of disconnection

00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:03.780
that I felt, of fear that I felt, and of feeling

00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:06.680
like, and I think I don't think I'm alone in

00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:09.280
this at all. I think many people have this feeling,

00:03:09.580 --> 00:03:11.639
especially when there's been some kind of abuse

00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:15.439
in their childhood of Feeling like I didn't belong

00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:18.520
anywhere, like I was just some kind of a misfit,

00:03:18.740 --> 00:03:22.080
that I was born flawed is what I actually felt,

00:03:22.460 --> 00:03:23.879
although I don't even know that I could have

00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:26.819
told you that when I was a child. And as I grew

00:03:26.819 --> 00:03:30.169
up... I just tried to hide those feelings. It

00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:32.150
felt like there was just something wrong with

00:03:32.150 --> 00:03:35.250
me. I didn't know what it was. And I tried to

00:03:35.250 --> 00:03:38.009
look good on the outside. I was a really good

00:03:38.009 --> 00:03:41.569
student in school. I took care of I dressed well.

00:03:41.629 --> 00:03:44.490
I did the things that I thought would make me

00:03:44.490 --> 00:03:46.770
appear like I was OK because I really didn't

00:03:46.770 --> 00:03:49.330
know what else to do. And by the time I went

00:03:49.330 --> 00:03:52.770
to college, my life began to a little bit fall

00:03:52.770 --> 00:03:56.610
apart. Now, I want to just back up and say that

00:03:56.669 --> 00:04:01.509
Within what I was dealing with as a child, periodically

00:04:01.509 --> 00:04:06.129
I had these amazing experiences of what I could

00:04:06.129 --> 00:04:09.250
only call some kind of spiritual connection,

00:04:09.990 --> 00:04:13.509
like deep feeling of connection of love and belonging

00:04:13.509 --> 00:04:17.639
in nature, and moments of just profound... All

00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:19.860
I can say is profound connection to something

00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:22.720
higher, not necessarily to other people. But

00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:25.500
I didn't know how to pursue that. And since I

00:04:25.500 --> 00:04:28.220
was a child of the 60s, and that's when the sort

00:04:28.220 --> 00:04:30.720
of spiritual revolution happened in the United

00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:34.040
States and it happened around me, I was very

00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:37.540
attracted to spiritual teachers and I learned

00:04:37.540 --> 00:04:40.839
different meditative practices, which were all

00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:44.839
great. And they didn't heal what had happened

00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:49.269
to me. And so I had somewhat of a breakdown in

00:04:49.269 --> 00:04:51.850
college, but I pulled myself together and recovered

00:04:51.850 --> 00:04:55.449
and went on. I joined a spiritual group. I got

00:04:55.449 --> 00:04:58.850
married. I had children. And then my life really

00:04:58.850 --> 00:05:03.250
did fall apart because as like many people who

00:05:03.250 --> 00:05:06.610
have unresolved childhood trauma, we get attracted

00:05:06.610 --> 00:05:09.350
to people who aren't necessarily good for us.

00:05:09.430 --> 00:05:12.029
And that was the situation for me with the man

00:05:12.029 --> 00:05:14.269
that I originally married and had children with.

00:05:14.389 --> 00:05:17.670
it was it was not a good relationship and and

00:05:17.670 --> 00:05:20.389
I really just went into this dark night of the

00:05:20.389 --> 00:05:24.449
soul when my children were very young and that

00:05:24.449 --> 00:05:26.990
brought me to therapy and I was starting to have

00:05:26.990 --> 00:05:29.769
memories and they were coming mostly through

00:05:29.769 --> 00:05:33.550
body sensations but I knew I began to know that

00:05:33.550 --> 00:05:36.790
something had happened that made me feel these

00:05:36.790 --> 00:05:40.490
very deeply distressed and dark feelings that

00:05:40.490 --> 00:05:42.750
I had been carrying around my whole life. The

00:05:42.750 --> 00:05:47.339
long story short is I went to therapy. It was

00:05:47.339 --> 00:05:51.379
revelatory because I did begin to remember some

00:05:51.379 --> 00:05:54.620
of the trauma, and I remembered enough to make

00:05:54.620 --> 00:05:57.819
sense of myself. And I understood, oh, I'm not

00:05:57.819 --> 00:06:01.180
a flawed person. This is the result of being

00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:03.699
hurt. These symptoms that I have, the fears that

00:06:03.699 --> 00:06:06.180
I have, the feelings of not belonging, the feelings

00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:09.100
of not being lovable, were all just symptoms.

00:06:09.220 --> 00:06:12.180
They weren't who I was born to be. And that was

00:06:12.180 --> 00:06:16.089
huge for me. And actually, it was. having those

00:06:16.089 --> 00:06:18.550
memories that allowed me to leave that marriage.

00:06:18.930 --> 00:06:22.769
I was a single mom for a long time and I became

00:06:22.769 --> 00:06:26.290
a therapist as a result of that experience because

00:06:26.290 --> 00:06:29.810
it was so profoundly life -changing for me that

00:06:29.810 --> 00:06:32.750
I wanted to help do that work with other people.

00:06:33.170 --> 00:06:35.610
And one of the things I want to share is that

00:06:35.610 --> 00:06:39.470
when I first went to therapy, I really did not

00:06:39.470 --> 00:06:42.569
believe that it would help me. I felt beyond

00:06:42.569 --> 00:06:45.069
help. I felt like other people make a healing

00:06:45.069 --> 00:06:47.410
journey, but I'm going to be the one who doesn't

00:06:47.410 --> 00:06:51.290
make it. And because I did make a healing journey

00:06:51.290 --> 00:06:54.230
and it took a while, then I felt like I could

00:06:54.230 --> 00:06:58.029
really believe that and know that to be true

00:06:58.029 --> 00:07:00.670
as I worked with other people. I knew that there

00:07:00.670 --> 00:07:02.569
was light at the end of the tunnel possible.

00:07:02.790 --> 00:07:06.769
I knew that no matter what terrible things might

00:07:06.769 --> 00:07:10.250
happen to us, that's not who we are. We are an

00:07:10.250 --> 00:07:13.970
essential, beautiful soul, spirit, essence, whatever

00:07:13.970 --> 00:07:16.810
you call it, underneath whatever might have happened

00:07:16.810 --> 00:07:19.889
to us, and whatever we might have done that wasn't

00:07:19.889 --> 00:07:24.339
so great. or kind or loving, because we all usually

00:07:24.339 --> 00:07:27.220
hurt people ourselves out of our own hurt. Maybe

00:07:27.220 --> 00:07:29.800
it's not intentional, but that's kind of the

00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:32.920
human condition. And so it was a long process

00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:37.420
for me to really recover and make contact with

00:07:37.420 --> 00:07:40.810
that essential part of my being. And for me,

00:07:41.129 --> 00:07:44.269
that also reopened that spiritual connection

00:07:44.269 --> 00:07:48.050
in my life. And I began to receive inner guidance

00:07:48.050 --> 00:07:51.310
about what my soul was doing in the experiences

00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:55.250
of Phyllis. And so that became my psychology,

00:07:55.750 --> 00:07:58.889
my psychological healing, and my spiritual awakening

00:07:58.889 --> 00:08:02.750
and opening kind of went together. And that really

00:08:02.750 --> 00:08:07.500
began in earnest in the 90s. and has been a process

00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:10.319
that I've been engaged with ever since. So let

00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:13.079
me know if you want to ask anything about that

00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.060
or where you want to go with that. Yes, that

00:08:16.060 --> 00:08:18.879
was good. Thank you for that. Yeah, just the

00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:24.959
question. How long was the abuse? how many years

00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:29.199
approximately, and then how many years did it

00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:33.419
take you to go through your process to get through

00:08:33.419 --> 00:08:37.139
it? And how did that look, whatever you didn't

00:08:37.139 --> 00:08:40.500
mention before? As much as I've remembered, and

00:08:40.500 --> 00:08:42.639
I don't know that I've remembered it all, but

00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:45.580
I think I remembered enough to be on a healing

00:08:45.580 --> 00:08:47.340
journey. And I think that's the way our psyches

00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:50.159
work. You just have to remember enough to get

00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.850
it. So I believe the abuse happened to me in

00:08:52.850 --> 00:08:56.850
infancy because, and it was sexual abuse, because

00:08:56.850 --> 00:09:00.370
those were my memories. The body sensations were

00:09:00.370 --> 00:09:03.230
being an infant lying kind of like on a bassinet

00:09:03.230 --> 00:09:06.269
kind of thing. I don't know how long it lasted.

00:09:06.429 --> 00:09:08.970
I don't think it was a one -time incident. However,

00:09:09.190 --> 00:09:12.009
it felt like it was something deeply imprinted

00:09:12.009 --> 00:09:15.970
into my body as well as my emotional life. And

00:09:15.970 --> 00:09:19.240
then when I was And I don't remember anything

00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:22.299
else from young childhood, but what the other

00:09:22.299 --> 00:09:26.159
memory that I recovered was that I got picked

00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.879
up by someone when I was a really young teenager

00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:34.039
and sexually assaulted. And that memory was very,

00:09:34.460 --> 00:09:36.879
that was actually the first memory that I got.

00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:40.639
And then it took me back to childhood, to previously

00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.259
what had happened to me previously. And it was

00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:46.779
terrifying. And so I buried it. I remembered

00:09:46.779 --> 00:09:51.039
the incident very differently from how it then

00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:55.100
later came out through my body and my visualizations,

00:09:55.799 --> 00:09:58.000
internal visualizations when I was actually in

00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.240
therapy and in a safe place. And what I want

00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:04.639
to say is I think sometimes you have to be in

00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:07.940
a safe place to let those memories emerge. I

00:10:07.940 --> 00:10:10.220
don't think I could have handled that memory

00:10:10.220 --> 00:10:15.830
by myself. So being in therapy with a safe person

00:10:15.830 --> 00:10:19.009
was really a key to opening up the memory that

00:10:19.009 --> 00:10:22.769
I needed to heal. That was good. Thank you. Do

00:10:22.769 --> 00:10:26.730
you help people that were sexually abused as

00:10:26.730 --> 00:10:30.230
a therapist today and or have a desire to? Well,

00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:33.309
I'm retired. I just recently retired, but I was

00:10:33.309 --> 00:10:35.789
in practice. Well, did you? Yes, and of course

00:10:35.789 --> 00:10:40.250
I did. And partly because sexual abuse and physical

00:10:40.250 --> 00:10:44.009
abuse and emotional abuse are rampant in our

00:10:44.009 --> 00:10:46.970
culture and probably in the human race today.

00:10:47.610 --> 00:10:51.090
And so inevitably, I think any therapist is going

00:10:51.090 --> 00:10:54.850
to... be confronted with that. And I felt, in

00:10:54.850 --> 00:10:57.450
some ways, I felt very grateful for having gone

00:10:57.450 --> 00:11:01.269
through my own journey with it because it gave

00:11:01.269 --> 00:11:04.370
me so much compassion. It gave me so much patience

00:11:04.370 --> 00:11:07.070
because I know that you don't heal overnight

00:11:07.070 --> 00:11:10.230
from violation from other people and especially

00:11:10.230 --> 00:11:12.929
people if they're people that you trust or you

00:11:12.929 --> 00:11:17.309
depend on. And so it just gave me a sense of

00:11:17.309 --> 00:11:20.730
being able to hold that place that I had needed.

00:11:20.830 --> 00:11:23.669
to be held for me. Yes, that was good. Thank

00:11:23.669 --> 00:11:27.110
you. One of the things I was thinking of was

00:11:27.110 --> 00:11:32.190
sometimes, unfortunately, a trauma will help

00:11:32.190 --> 00:11:34.769
or something doesn't necessarily have to be a

00:11:34.769 --> 00:11:37.610
trauma, but we're talking about here, but something

00:11:37.610 --> 00:11:40.350
that happens in somebody's life that's negative

00:11:40.350 --> 00:11:43.250
or they want to turn it around. That thing that

00:11:43.250 --> 00:11:48.009
happens gives the person. the ability now to

00:11:48.009 --> 00:11:52.070
help somebody else that that same thing is happening

00:11:52.070 --> 00:11:55.929
to them. Why? Not only because of the way I do

00:11:55.929 --> 00:11:58.549
this show, like I had explained, right, that

00:11:58.549 --> 00:12:00.570
somebody is going to hear your story and they're

00:12:00.570 --> 00:12:02.750
going to know you came out the other side. But

00:12:02.750 --> 00:12:07.190
what happens is to my experience is that when

00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:10.149
somebody has something happen to them, then they

00:12:10.149 --> 00:12:12.889
get through it. Now they've changed their energy.

00:12:13.070 --> 00:12:16.490
So they have one type of energy. as they're going

00:12:16.490 --> 00:12:19.090
through it and their process, their energy changes,

00:12:19.250 --> 00:12:21.309
blah, blah, blah. And then they come out the

00:12:21.309 --> 00:12:23.889
other side and now they have a completely different

00:12:23.889 --> 00:12:28.289
type of energy. And that enables them to now

00:12:28.289 --> 00:12:33.210
go out and help others that have the same issue

00:12:33.210 --> 00:12:35.809
or problem or whatever it is. And what happens

00:12:35.809 --> 00:12:39.529
then? Those people just come right to them because

00:12:39.529 --> 00:12:43.149
subconsciously, like they're saying, I can help

00:12:43.149 --> 00:12:46.860
you. And it could be a friend. It could be like

00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:49.720
you became a therapist. Could be professional.

00:12:49.980 --> 00:12:51.840
It could be at work. I mean, there's a million

00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:55.399
different ways. There's a million different avenues

00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:59.059
that somebody can meet somebody like that or

00:12:59.059 --> 00:13:01.799
be able to interact with somebody like that,

00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:06.700
because that person wants help nine times out

00:13:06.700 --> 00:13:10.139
of 10. And if they really want it, they'll find

00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:13.169
it. They're going to seek it. And if they seek

00:13:13.169 --> 00:13:16.990
it, they will 100 % find it eventually. They

00:13:16.990 --> 00:13:20.110
might have to go through it, maybe a few years

00:13:20.110 --> 00:13:23.490
extra suffering or whatever, but eventually they

00:13:23.490 --> 00:13:26.389
keep seeking it and seeking it. Eventually they

00:13:26.389 --> 00:13:28.649
will find it. That's just the way that it works.

00:13:28.690 --> 00:13:32.750
So that person is meant for. Like you became

00:13:32.750 --> 00:13:35.950
a therapist. So now you're meant to help people

00:13:35.950 --> 00:13:39.190
that have been sexually abused. You were that's

00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:41.730
a different situation with you. To me, that's

00:13:41.730 --> 00:13:45.090
the ultimate is when you can go into the mental

00:13:45.090 --> 00:13:48.230
field like a therapist or a psychologist or a

00:13:48.230 --> 00:13:50.750
psychiatrist where you have something mental

00:13:50.750 --> 00:13:53.950
or something that's very traumatic experience.

00:13:53.950 --> 00:13:56.769
And now you can actually go into that field because

00:13:56.769 --> 00:13:59.960
that's like a given. That's like a really. That's

00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:02.940
just a very easy way and a very good way to help

00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:05.220
somebody. But I mean, there's like I said, there's

00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:07.899
a million different avenues, million different

00:14:07.899 --> 00:14:10.480
situations where somebody goes through, something

00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:13.360
comes out the other side and then they have the

00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.659
ability to help that person. So as I go through

00:14:16.659 --> 00:14:20.320
this, my energy is constantly changing. And then,

00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:23.460
like I said, it turns into a positive. Now I

00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:26.120
have completely different energy. And now I'm

00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:30.120
like saying I can help. you, I can help anybody.

00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:34.179
These people need to come to me because now I

00:14:34.179 --> 00:14:36.779
could help them to get out of that they're in

00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:40.279
and I could show them that that's actually possible,

00:14:40.460 --> 00:14:42.679
that that's definitely going to happen. And from

00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:45.059
my experience, like I knew that it could happen

00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:48.200
because I made that healing journey in a way

00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.779
that I never actually thought possible. If you

00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:52.679
had asked me, I would have told you I'll be the

00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:55.740
one person who doesn't make it. But. There was

00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:58.139
also something in me that never gave up, and

00:14:58.139 --> 00:15:00.960
I think a lot of us have that. If we really look

00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.279
inside, there's something that's always looking

00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:07.460
for the next best way to heal. I wanted to say

00:15:07.460 --> 00:15:09.559
something about what you said about our energy

00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:11.639
changing because I think that's a really good

00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:15.539
way to describe one of the best outcomes from

00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:17.879
doing this kind of healing work is that your

00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:22.720
energy actually changes. And for me, I was and

00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:24.980
some people, you know, they're highly aggressive

00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:28.340
or they're people pleasers or they're workaholics

00:15:28.340 --> 00:15:31.200
or they become addicts or they're suffering from

00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.320
anxiety or agoraphobia or depression. And I would

00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.789
say In my journey, I probably suffered from depression

00:15:39.789 --> 00:15:44.309
and anxiety that made me very, very shut down.

00:15:44.710 --> 00:15:47.289
I might have been born with a tendency toward

00:15:47.289 --> 00:15:49.389
being an introvert. I don't know. I think we

00:15:49.389 --> 00:15:51.570
have a nature that we come into the world with,

00:15:51.830 --> 00:15:54.570
but then we're very conditioned by what happens

00:15:54.570 --> 00:15:58.549
to us. And that's the nurture part of our experience

00:15:58.549 --> 00:16:01.370
and our conditioning. So maybe I was born kind

00:16:01.370 --> 00:16:04.169
of introverted, but I was really introverted

00:16:04.169 --> 00:16:07.610
and very hidden and very shut down. I barely

00:16:07.610 --> 00:16:11.769
dated when I was younger. I was just afraid of

00:16:11.769 --> 00:16:15.909
relationship and afraid of myself. And having

00:16:15.909 --> 00:16:20.029
done that work of recovering the memories and

00:16:20.029 --> 00:16:24.629
reworking my internal mental, emotional conditioning

00:16:24.629 --> 00:16:28.980
within myself, I'm not. So shut. I'm not that

00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:31.899
shut down person anymore. I probably still have

00:16:31.899 --> 00:16:36.200
a tendency toward liking my alone time, but I'm

00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.460
very relational now. I'm married to a wonderful

00:16:39.460 --> 00:16:42.580
person now. My kids are grown. I have grandchildren

00:16:42.580 --> 00:16:46.059
now. And I'm relational in a very, very different

00:16:46.059 --> 00:16:48.779
way. And I don't mean that that comes without

00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:51.940
challenges. Because it does. I think life just

00:16:51.940 --> 00:16:54.299
brings everybody challenges in relationship,

00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.899
in self -expression, in creativity, in belonging.

00:16:58.460 --> 00:17:00.519
So it's not that my life is without challenges

00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.320
and I don't expect that it ever will be. But

00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.519
I think one of the things that that kind of healing

00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.680
work gave me was greater and greater capacity

00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.779
to cope with the difficulties from a healthier

00:17:12.779 --> 00:17:16.619
place rather than just a reactive place or automatically

00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:19.690
shutting down when things were tough or I had

00:17:19.690 --> 00:17:23.130
a lot of self -blame when I was younger. And

00:17:23.130 --> 00:17:25.710
I really work with that in my present day life,

00:17:26.369 --> 00:17:30.150
like getting past blaming others and blaming

00:17:30.150 --> 00:17:32.930
myself. And that's just a lifetime of work all

00:17:32.930 --> 00:17:36.329
by itself. But I just like the way that you identified

00:17:36.329 --> 00:17:40.170
the change in energy. Because it's not just a

00:17:40.170 --> 00:17:45.009
change in behavior. It is. It most likely will

00:17:45.009 --> 00:17:48.069
bring a change in behavior. It might bring a

00:17:48.069 --> 00:17:51.289
change in beliefs. It definitely will bring a

00:17:51.289 --> 00:17:54.170
change in who we're attracted to and what we're

00:17:54.170 --> 00:17:57.549
attracted to. But it also brings a change in

00:17:57.549 --> 00:18:01.140
our fundamental life force energy. Yes, definitely

00:18:01.140 --> 00:18:05.299
true. The last thing I want to say is there's

00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:09.539
another side to this. And the other side is you

00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:13.480
express that you felt that you knew that you

00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.839
could do this, right? That you could get through

00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:18.480
it. You could get over it. There was something

00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.980
inside of you, right? That just said, go punch

00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:26.059
through it and the good will happen. What about

00:18:26.059 --> 00:18:29.849
the person? That doesn't have that inside of

00:18:29.849 --> 00:18:33.329
them because that's something that that's just

00:18:33.329 --> 00:18:36.130
in me It's not always something I can control

00:18:36.130 --> 00:18:39.150
sometimes it is Okay, but a lot of times it's

00:18:39.150 --> 00:18:43.470
not so what about the person that does not have

00:18:43.470 --> 00:18:46.309
that and like I said That's one of the reasons

00:18:46.309 --> 00:18:51.450
why I do the show, but I'm wondering if you even

00:18:51.450 --> 00:18:58.619
can know how can they really get to that understanding.

00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.920
And you probably wouldn't be the person to know

00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.720
this out of anybody. How could they get to that

00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:09.240
understanding that they do know, or they just

00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:13.259
can get out of whatever they're in? We're talking

00:19:13.259 --> 00:19:15.480
about sexual abuse here, but I mean, abuse is

00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.019
very, very popular. So can they come to that

00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:22.940
understanding? And how? And maybe... Actually,

00:19:22.940 --> 00:19:24.599
I don't even know. I don't even know the answer

00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:26.839
to that, believe it or not. Well, I do think

00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:28.559
there are many people who don't come to that

00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:31.039
understanding, and I think it's tragic. I think

00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:33.579
there are people who just don't have the exposure

00:19:33.579 --> 00:19:37.420
to the possibility of healing or exposure to

00:19:37.420 --> 00:19:40.000
people who have made some kind of a healing journey

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.559
and have something to offer. And I think that's

00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.359
one of the tragedies of our present culture and

00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:49.240
societal kind of functioning, that we don't make

00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:53.339
it like widely known that if you're symptomatic,

00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:58.039
and I always correlate this to medical. If you

00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:00.700
have a pain in your body, something's wrong in

00:20:00.700 --> 00:20:03.200
your body. If you can't walk, if you're having

00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.240
trouble breathing, if there's a swelling in a

00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.200
certain area of your body, you know something's

00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.539
wrong in the body that needs help. It needs treatment.

00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.279
It needs diagnosis and treatment. And you go

00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.599
to a doctor, if you possibly can, to get some

00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:23.670
kind of help for that. We're not quite there

00:20:23.670 --> 00:20:27.869
psychologically as a society. While I think psychotherapy

00:20:27.869 --> 00:20:30.910
and lots of different kinds of therapies are

00:20:30.910 --> 00:20:33.109
definitely more in the mainstream than they were

00:20:33.109 --> 00:20:36.109
when I grew up. And I'm glad about that. I don't

00:20:36.109 --> 00:20:38.910
think they're available to everyone. And I think

00:20:38.910 --> 00:20:41.289
there's whole segments of our society that have

00:20:41.289 --> 00:20:44.089
been kind of conditioned to believe that if you

00:20:44.089 --> 00:20:46.349
go to a therapist, that means you're weak and

00:20:46.349 --> 00:20:48.809
you should be able to figure it all out by yourself.

00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:52.180
Don't tell anybody you need help and pull yourself

00:20:52.180 --> 00:20:55.319
up by your bootstraps. So I think one of the

00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:59.240
things is to look for opportunities when they

00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:01.859
arise. If there's someone that you know that's

00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:06.019
in distress, maybe plan to see that that's probably

00:21:06.019 --> 00:21:08.279
not accidental that you're in that distress,

00:21:08.700 --> 00:21:10.819
that you're having so much trouble in your marriage

00:21:10.819 --> 00:21:13.519
or with your children or finding a career that

00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:16.759
really works for you. or expressing your art

00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:19.720
or even finding what your potential is, that

00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:22.500
there's probably something that happened in your

00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:25.880
conditioning that's in the way and you owe it

00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.259
to yourself. You deserve to uncover what that

00:21:29.259 --> 00:21:32.059
is and live the life that you were born to live.

00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:34.819
But I also think it's one of the reasons why

00:21:34.819 --> 00:21:37.579
I've written three books. The first two are about

00:21:37.579 --> 00:21:40.220
my own healing journey, a light in the darkness

00:21:40.220 --> 00:21:43.299
and into the fire. And my latest book, America

00:21:43.299 --> 00:21:46.039
in Therapy, is bringing that whole conversation

00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:50.910
to the collective. that a country is also a family

00:21:50.910 --> 00:21:53.730
that needs healing as well as us in our own individual

00:21:53.730 --> 00:21:57.269
lives. But what I want to say about that is I

00:21:57.269 --> 00:21:59.930
think we need to educate each other. And that's

00:21:59.930 --> 00:22:03.390
the value of like your podcast and so many people

00:22:03.390 --> 00:22:06.210
who are out there doing podcasts or writing articles

00:22:06.210 --> 00:22:10.450
or giving talks or writing books. Like that's

00:22:10.450 --> 00:22:14.049
my venue is like, I want to share what I have

00:22:14.049 --> 00:22:17.980
learned is possible. kind of what the diagnosis

00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.140
is and what are the possible healing roads that

00:22:21.140 --> 00:22:25.380
we can take with as many people as possible because

00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:28.619
there's a lot of suffering going on in America

00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:31.400
today and in the human population around the

00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:35.759
world that I believe we could interrupt this

00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:39.539
cycle of hurting one another and becoming symptomatic

00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:42.039
and acting out our pain on ourselves and other

00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.700
people if we had access to greater knowledge

00:22:45.700 --> 00:22:48.900
and greater avenues to get help. Yeah, that was

00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:51.220
good. The other thing I was thinking of was people

00:22:51.220 --> 00:22:53.700
just always get warning signs nine times out

00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:56.819
of 10. And I could. take advantage of those warning

00:22:56.819 --> 00:23:00.019
signs if somebody tells me I need help or I can

00:23:00.019 --> 00:23:03.160
just dismiss it and continue on with the sick

00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:07.140
and suffering. So the last question is, how do

00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:11.839
you feel today? How do you feel right now as

00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.920
a result of based on this whole podcast, this

00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.099
whole conversation that we have had? This is

00:23:19.099 --> 00:23:22.430
the very best time of my life. It really is.

00:23:22.690 --> 00:23:25.349
And I'm so grateful that I lived long enough

00:23:25.349 --> 00:23:29.650
to experience some of the fruits of some of the

00:23:29.650 --> 00:23:32.450
very painful years that I went through, because

00:23:32.450 --> 00:23:34.529
I went through a lot of years of a lot of pain.

00:23:34.950 --> 00:23:38.210
And I feel very grateful that I found the places

00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:41.750
that helped me come out the other side. And again,

00:23:41.829 --> 00:23:44.009
not that my life isn't perfect. I still have

00:23:44.009 --> 00:23:46.829
challenges. I still have things that cause me

00:23:46.829 --> 00:23:52.039
pain. But overall, I'm happy. I'm, like I said,

00:23:52.220 --> 00:23:54.480
I'm married to a wonderful person, and that has

00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:58.140
made all the difference. I have incredible children,

00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:00.339
I have some grandchildren, and I have really

00:24:00.339 --> 00:24:04.019
good friends. And I can say that when I was younger,

00:24:04.460 --> 00:24:07.980
some of the friends I picked were a reflection

00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:11.779
of my own unhealed wounds. I tended to pick people

00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:15.259
who had to be one up, and I agreed to be one

00:24:15.259 --> 00:24:19.220
down in those relationships. And it wasn't fun.

00:24:19.369 --> 00:24:23.049
But it was where I thought I deserved to be.

00:24:23.250 --> 00:24:27.289
It's where I believed I was. And the more I worked

00:24:27.289 --> 00:24:30.829
on my own healing, the more I shed those relationships

00:24:30.829 --> 00:24:35.349
and found friends that are really truly equals,

00:24:35.569 --> 00:24:38.690
that are people who support me and I support

00:24:38.690 --> 00:24:41.509
them. And we're not one -upping each other and

00:24:41.509 --> 00:24:44.230
we're not competing with each other and we're

00:24:44.230 --> 00:24:46.809
not bad -mouthing each other behind our backs

00:24:46.809 --> 00:24:49.670
either. And I think all of that is possible.

00:24:49.869 --> 00:24:52.109
And again, I don't want to say it's roses, roses.

00:24:52.809 --> 00:24:56.569
Relationships are challenging, even when you

00:24:56.569 --> 00:24:59.869
love someone, even when they love you. But we

00:24:59.869 --> 00:25:03.410
can either look at those challenges as growth

00:25:03.410 --> 00:25:06.769
opportunities or signs of failure. And I feel

00:25:06.769 --> 00:25:10.140
like I'm learning. all the time to see the challenges

00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:12.779
in my life as growth opportunities. And when

00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:15.299
I look at them that way, then they become that.

00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:18.839
Yes, agreed. Very good. I really appreciate it.

00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:22.039
Thank you. So as we wrap up, this conversation

00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:24.859
highlights how small internal shifts can create

00:25:24.859 --> 00:25:27.440
meaningful change. If something from today stayed

00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:29.740
with you, take a moment to reflect on how it

00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:31.839
connects to your own direction and decisions.

00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.019
This has been the Internal Shift Show. Thank

00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:36.299
you for listening. Thank you, Phyllis, for being

00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:38.119
on the show. I really appreciate it. it. Well,

00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:40.099
thank you so much for having me. I appreciate

00:25:40.099 --> 00:25:40.500
you.